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SUMMARY:
In this candid — and at time
s raw — conversation, Scott sits down with Joseph Baughman — Vincennes resident, democratic socialist, Christian, and recently withdrawn Democratic candidate for Indiana Senate District 39 — to examine what happens when a working-class candidate with no institutional support, no donor network, and very little money in the bank tries to run for office in one of Indiana’s most gerrymandered rural Senate districts. Baughman walks through the structural barriers that greet candidates who don’t come from money, the cold shoulder he received from roughly half the county Democratic parties in his six-county district, the advice from a party representative to take lobbyist money and vote however he wanted — an ethical line he couldn’t cross — and why he ultimately stepped aside. The conversation broadens into a wider diagnosis: the Democratic Party’s hollowing-out of its state and local infrastructure since the Obama era, its retreat from rural and religious voters, and how Trumpism filled that vacuum by speaking a language the party abandoned. Baughman closes with a call rooted in his prairie socialist faith: help somebody today.
WHAT’S INSIDE:
00:00:21 Introduction: The DLCC, Senate District 39, and Tonight’s Guest
- The DLCC announced investment in 11 Indiana state house races to break the GOP supermajority, but no comparable effort exists on the Senate side — where districts are even more gerrymandered.
- Republicans spent millions in the Indiana Senate primary alone; Trump-endorsed MAGA candidates ousted seven incumbents who voted against the congressional redistricting gambit, with two others retiring rather than face the primary.
- Eric Bassler’s retirement in SD-39 opened the seat; Jeff Ellington — former state rep, Trump-endorsed — won a three-way primary. Joseph Baughman, a democratic socialist from Vincennes, filed to run against him but has since withdrawn, leaving Democrats scrambling before the July 6th deadline.
00:02:29 Support the Show
- HoosLeft and Progressive Indiana Network don’t paywall content or charge candidates — listener support at progressiveindiana.net ($5/month or $50/year) is what sustains the project.
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00:04:09 Guest Introduction: Joseph Baughman
- Baughman was born in Sullivan, lived in Linton for a time, and recently moved to Vincennes — embedded in SW Indiana for generations, with children and grandchildren staying in the area.
- He describes himself simply as a common man — anybody you’d want to meet.
00:05:14 Why He Ran: Watching the Vulnerable Get Left Behind
- Baughman decided to run because of what he was seeing at both the federal and state level: neighbors being displaced, the homeless and those without healthcare being attacked on a daily basis.
- He concluded that something had to be done and that something required a top-down approach — and since nobody else was stepping up for the open seat, he decided it had to be him.
- He’d been considering a run for a year or two before filing, and when the moment felt right, he committed.
00:07:23 The Campaign Experience: Filing, Barriers, and the Cost of Running
- Senate candidates must file in person at the statehouse — for a Vincennes resident, that’s an all-day trip to Indianapolis, requiring time off work that not everyone can afford.
- Scott identifies this as one of many ways the system filters out a certain class of candidate — those without the financial cushion to absorb the hidden costs of running.
- Scott notes from his own experience running HoosLeft and working full-time that he can’t comprehend how candidates with small children juggle work, family, and a campaign simultaneously — the logistical burden alone is disqualifying for many people who could bring an invaluable perspective to government.
00:09:53 The Self-Selecting Nature of Electoral Politics
- A state legislator’s salary is $33,000 a year for a part-time job running roughly January through March or April — not a livable wage on its own, which means candidates need another income source regardless.
- The people who run for $33,000/year jobs, Baughman observes, are mostly people who already have institutional money, family money, or other financial backing — the system self-selects for the already-comfortable.
- Scott notes the parallel at the congressional level: Jefferson Shreve, approaching billionaire status, can treat a $174,000 congressional salary as an afterthought — the structural incentives push wealth upward through every level of government.
00:13:01 Technical Difficulties Interlude
- Brief audio dropout prompts Scott to reconnect — Joe’s cat also makes an cameo appearance.
00:14:11 Fundraising Reality: $687 Against a $30,000-$50,000 Target
- Baughman ran his entire campaign on $687. The standard guidance for a Senate candidate to be taken seriously is between $30,000 and $50,000 — a gap he had no realistic path to close.
- The Democratic Party provided no financial assistance — a stark contrast, Baughman says, from the party infrastructure he grew up with in the ‘80s and ‘90s, when the state party helped with flyers and basic organizing.
- In a six-county district, he describes the party structure as “six separate heads of a beast” — county parties operating independently with no coordinating role from the district chair to onboard or connect new candidates.
00:17:48 If You’re Not Wealthy, You Have to Know Wealthy People
- Scott frames the catch: if you can’t self-fund $30,000–$50,000, you tap your extended network — but that only works if your network includes people with money.
- Baughman’s network is working people. His neighbors are trying to keep food on the table, not fund campaigns — in a district where 38% of residents are struggling by any income measure, that’s not a personal failure, it’s math.
- Campaign contributions aren’t a basic necessity when people are cancelling subscriptions to keep up with utilities and food.
00:19:06 38% of Hoosiers Struggling: The Donor Class and the Utility Company Problem
- A United Way of Indiana study released that week found 38% of Hoosier households struggling with basic necessities — a statistic that matches what Baughman sees in his own neighborhood: people knocking on his door offering to mow his entire lawn for $10 to put a little extra food on the table for their kids.
- Scott connects the dots: utility companies are among the biggest campaign contributors in Indiana — to Republicans mostly, but Democrats too — and the self-reinforcing cycle of fundraising removes legislators from exactly the constituents they’re supposed to represent.
- Scott argues the distance is structural, not incidental: once in Indianapolis, legislators mingle with elites and lobbyists who schmooze them into policies detrimental to the average working Hoosier — and the fundraising system ensures they arrived already removed from the people they’re supposed to represent.
00:22:13 Eat With Them, Take Their Money: The Advice That Broke the Camel’s Back
- A party representative told Baughman directly: eat with the lobbyists, take their money, laugh with them, and vote however you want.
- Baughman couldn’t reconcile that ethically — and points out the advice applies to citizens too: taking constituent money and voting however you want is the same logic, just with a different donor class.
- This was a significant factor in his decision to withdraw — he couldn’t campaign on integrity while being advised to perform it selectively.
00:24:29 The Beau Bayh Parallel: Donor Class Capture at Every Level
- Scott raises the Beau Bayh Secretary of State race as the statewide parallel: major contributions from school choice advocates and private equity firms with interests before the office, with the establishment defense being that you need money to win and can dine with donors without being beholden.
- Scott argues the data backs it up: the donor class gets their way consistently, and it’s systemic from the statehouse to Congress. Baughman agrees — it’s a systemic issue all the way to the top.
- Baughman says he simply couldn’t do it — and wishes someone had warned him about this dynamic before he filed.
00:26:20 Corporate Democrats, Coronations, and the Socialist Label
- Baughman argues that corporate Democrats are entrenched within the party, and that the Bayh SOS campaign was effectively a coronation — something that burned him and contributed to his decision to run in the first place.
- As an openly declared democratic socialist from day one, Baughman took a double hit: institutional resistance from party structures and personal resistance from lifelong neighbors who couldn’t pull the trigger for a socialist.
- Despite that, he’s proud of the votes he received — and notes the party has shown him more outreach since he withdrew than during his entire campaign.
00:28:08 County Party Cold Shoulders and the 50/50 Split
- About half the county parties in SD-39’s six-county footprint gave Baughman the cold shoulder; three reached out and made suggestions, including one Sullivan chair who has known him his whole life.
- Two county party leaders were genuinely supportive and progressive-minded — people he hopes to call friends. One county was just getting started and couldn’t offer much. One actively shunned him. One never reached out at all.
- The district chair, in Baughman’s view, should have played a coordinating role — giving candidates a contact list, making introductions, helping them navigate the county party structure — and that simply didn’t happen.
00:30:13 Don’t Come Around Here: How Party Gatekeeping Blocks Progressive Candidates
- Scott frames the systemic problem: candidates can’t build contacts in a district if local Democratic parties won’t tell them when meetings are happening or won’t let them speak.
- The ask isn’t money — it’s a neutral platform, a room, an introduction. When that’s withheld, the message is clear: we don’t like what you’re going to say, here’s someone more palatable instead.
- Baughman confirms this pattern directly — one individual in his district wasn’t actively against him but made clear he would not offer vocal support.
00:32:45 Tone It Down: Being Told to Hide the Democratic Socialist Label
- The same party representative who advised him to take lobbyist money also told Baughman he was too far left and needed to move toward the center — specifically because of his $19/hour minimum wage proposal.
- The Economic Policy Institute and MIT’s living wage calculator both support a $19/hour floor for Indiana as a bare minimum — a position Baughman describes as not even enough to really live in the rural areas, let alone urban ones.
- Scott’s frustration: Democrats habitually negotiate from the center, giving away half the farm before they start. The socialist brand may not fly in rural Indiana — but neither does the Democratic brand, so the timidity isn’t buying anything.
00:35:36 Ellington Uncontested and the Scramble for a Replacement Candidate
- With Baughman’s withdrawal, Jeff Ellington is currently uncontested in November. Scott describes him as a Trump-endorsed candidate who owns a horse farm outside Bloomington and is terrible on policy.
- The party had touted leaving no senate seat without a candidate this cycle — Baughman’s departure puts that commitment to the test with a July 6th filing deadline.
- Baughman has signed his withdrawal in front of a notary and sent it in; he expects the party has someone in the wings and says he will fully support whoever takes his spot — he’s not taking his ball and going home.
00:38:23 The Bombshell Candidate Question: Where Were They in January?
- The 8th district chair hinted at having a “bombshell candidate” ready to step in — which raises an obvious question: if they existed, why weren’t they recruited before the filing deadline?
- Baughman says he filed a week before the deadline and explicitly said in public remarks that he hoped someone else would step up so he didn’t have to.
- The episode illustrates a broader failure of candidate recruitment infrastructure: waiting until a vacancy is created rather than building a pipeline.
00:40:44 Indiana Rural Summit: The One Institution That Actually Helped
- Both Scott and Baughman praise Indiana Rural Summit — led by Michelle Higgs — as the one organization that provided meaningful, practical support to rural candidates.
- Getting connected to Indiana Rural Summit made a significant difference for Baughman, coming from a starting point of essentially nothing in terms of campaign infrastructure or guidance.
- The contrast with the formal party apparatus is stark: a nonprofit did more for candidate development than the official party structure.
00:42:03 Faith and Socialism: How They Inform Each Other
- Baughman’s faith and his socialism are inseparable — each informs the other. His faith says help the migrant, the widow, the poor; lift up your fellow man. Socialism says the same: no man is better than any other, every man’s worth is due.
- He’s not a Marxist — the red scare imagery of armies marching through Moscow is not what he is. He’s a Midwest prairie socialist in the tradition of Eugene Debs, Dorothy Day, and the Catholic Worker Movement.
- The message was hard to communicate in rural SW Indiana, where the word “socialist” carries a reflexive Cold War connotation that bears no resemblance to the tradition he’s actually drawing from.
00:44:13 Eugene Debs, Dorothy Day, and Midwest Prairie Socialism
- Baughman situates himself explicitly in the Debs tradition — Indiana’s own — and in the Catholic Worker Movement’s model of direct service and structural critique combined.
- This is not a cosmopolitan or academic socialism; it is rooted in the rural Midwest’s own history of labor organizing and social gospel Christianity.
- The challenge is that this tradition has been buried under decades of Cold War framing that the right still deploys effectively.
00:45:52 Christian Nationalism vs. the Gospels: What Jesus Actually Said
- Scott asks how Micah Beckwith and Christian nationalists arrive at their theology from a Gospel that is explicitly about caring for the least of these and the difficulty of the wealthy entering heaven.
- Baughman’s answer: it’s not Christianity. It’s the same nationalism that fascists taught in the 1930s — the idea that the greatest will win — which is the complete antithesis of anything Christ taught. In every sermon, the least of these are the greatest.
- Scott: Christian nationalists don’t quote the Gospels. They quote Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and Revelation — they read the beginning, got bored, and skipped to the end.
00:47:44 Christianity as Brand Identity: The Bias Feedback Loop
- Baughman spent about 20 years ago as a lay minister in the United Methodist Church, working in ecumenical circles — which gave him insight into how many Christians have never actually read the Bible and rely entirely on what they’re told on Sunday.
- When the person delivering that message has bad intentions, the message has bad intentions — and the bias feedback loop means the more people hear it and believe it, the more it hardens. Stepping out of it destroys their reality.
- Scott’s formulation: for a lot of American Christians, Christianity has become a brand identity — something you call yourself, not something you do. Certainly not living the way Jesus described.
00:49:08 Is There a Place for Rural Christian Socialists in Indiana?
- Scott — a secular Democrat — argues the party has largely retreated from religious language at exactly the wrong time, ceding that ground to the right entirely.
- He names politicians who speak Christian fluently and effectively: Senator Warnock, Pete Buttigieg, James Talarico, Andy Beshear — none of them socialists, but all of them demonstrating that the Social Gospel is available to the left as a genuine political language.
- Baughman agrees the party has no coherent rural messaging strategy and is allowing someone else to co-opt messaging to a constituency they should easily hold. The Democratic Party was the working man’s party — and stopped acting like it.
00:51:49 How Democrats Lost the Rural Working Class — and Who Picked It Up
- Scott asks whether the Obama backlash and racism explain the rural shift — Baughman pushes back: Indiana went for Obama, and there was genuine excitement for him even in rural areas.
- Baughman’s diagnosis: somewhere along the line, both parties stopped talking to the working class and stopped speaking their language. The Republican Party and Trumpism picked up that mantle and captivated those voters by speaking it — however cynically.
- It wasn’t Obama personally. It was a longer drift by both parties away from working-class economic language, and the right filled the vacuum.
00:53:30 Bottom Up: The IndyStar Piece and the Hollowing of the Party
- An IndyStar piece arguing that winning at the top of the ticket lifts the rest of the party prompts Scott’s counter: it has to be bottom up, and Democrats lost that plot during the Obama era by focusing on the presidential race and letting the state and local apparatus hollow out.
- Baughman agrees — the lack of state-level infrastructure genuinely surprised him. He does credit Teresa Kendall as someone who gets it and operates bottom-up, pounding the pavement the way it should be done.
- The party needs to listen to more people like her.
00:55:04 What’s Next for Joseph Baughman
- Baughman isn’t done serving his community — he’s assessing where the need is greatest right now.
- He mentions the possibility of working with Saint Francis Xavier Parish in Vincennes to get neighbors the direct help they’re coming to his door to ask for.
- His closing statement, offered simply: help somebody today.
00:56:32 Outro
