Professor Daniel A. Segal, a retired anthropologist and member of Jewish Voice for Peace Indiana, explains why he is “proudly anti-Zionist” while proudly Jewish. He distinguishes Zionism (a roughly 150-year-old political project of creating an ethno-supremacist state) from Judaism (a 4,000-year-old religion), arguing that opposing Jewish supremacism is no different than opposing white supremacism—the issue is supremacism itself, not the people. Segal discusses how the weaponization of antisemitism charges silences legitimate criticism of Israeli state structure, why Israel as currently constituted “does not have a right to exist” (any supremacist state lacks legitimacy), and how to discuss Israeli influence in U.S. politics without invoking conspiracy tropes (noting Christian Zionists vastly outnumber Jewish Zionists). On a just resolution, he refuses to advocate for one state or two states, saying it would be “colonialist” to impose a solution—instead insisting any outcome must be based on full equality and freedom for all, with Palestinians themselves deciding the political structure. He endorses BDS as nonviolent resistance and argues those who opposed it share responsibility for creating the desperate conditions that led to October 7th violence.
IN THE INTERVIEW
5:00 - UNTANGLING ZIONISM FROM JUDAISM
- Judaism is 4,000-year-old religion; Zionism is political project from the 1800’s about state formation
- Analogy: Opposing white supremacist state doesn’t mean anti-white; opposing Jewish supremacist state doesn’t mean antisemitic
- Zionism is ethno-supremacist ideology treating Jews as more than and non-Jews as less than, just like apartheid South Africa
9:44 - ORIGINS OF ZIONISM IN 19TH CENTURY NATIONALISM
- Emerged during period of European nation-making and racial pseudo-science
- Political Zionists (like Herzl) were secular, saw Judaism as ethnic/racial identity not religious
- Movement included cultural Zionists and socialist Zionists with different visions, but political Zionism won out
15:54 - JEWISH REFUGEES HAD RIGHT TO SEEK SAFETY, NOT TO DISPOSSESS
- Segal’s grandfather fled pogrom in Russia as 5-year-old (brick hit him, still had scar when died in 90s)
- Great-grandmother correctly analyzed: “Let’s get the hell out of here”—ended up in Brooklyn
- Jews fleeing oppression should be welcomed anywhere, but pulling yourself into safe harbor doesn’t give right to throw existing inhabitants “into sea of oppression”
18:00 - ZIONIST PROJECT OF DISPOSSESSION
- Early settlers sometimes tried to be good neighbors with Palestinian Arab population (Muslim majority, Christian minority, small Jewish minority)
- Zionist leaders encouraged stealing land “by hook or by crook,” pushing Palestinians away
- 1948 involved massacres and ethnic cleansing, again in 1967—this dispossession is the unpardonable sin
25:54 - WEAPONIZATION OF ANTISEMITISM CHARGES
- Segal personally attacked online as “radical left professor teaching Jew hatred” at Claremont
- Testified against IHRA antisemitism definition in Indiana legislature
- Calling for equal rights (eliminating laws treating Jews/non-Jews differently) gets falsely labeled as “Jew hatred”
27:54 - ANTI-ZIONISM VS. CRITICIZING NETANYAHU
- Anti-Zionism is more than criticizing current government—it’s criticizing the state structure itself
- Israeli supremacism built into state like Jim Crow racism or apartheid South Africa
- Any state not respecting human equality “does not have a right to exist”—must reform or be dismantled
29:51 - ISRAEL’S RIGHT TO EXIST
- “Jewish supremacist state does not have a right to exist. Zionist state does not have right to exist. Israel in current form does not have right to exist.”
- Could change like U.S. through reforms, or be replaced like apartheid South Africa
- Must embrace “these radical ideas, equality and freedom”
38:18 - BDS (BOYCOTT, DIVESTMENT, SANCTIONS)
- BDS is Palestinian call for nonviolent resistance—essentially “Palestinian picket line”
- Those who didn’t support BDS “created desperate conditions that led to violence of October 7th”
- Segal supported BDS, doesn’t approve of October 7th violence but blames oppression and those who failed to support nonviolent resistance
40:34 - DISCUSSING ISRAELI INFLUENCE WITHOUT ANTISEMITIC CONSPIRACY TROPES
- Israel has nuclear weapons (obtained through spying on U.S. and Soviet Union), though officially unacknowledged
- Can discuss AIPAC, Mossad, financial ties without invoking “Jewish cabal running world”
- Christian Zionists vastly outnumber Jewish Zionists in U.S.—Christian evangelical support is massive base of Zionism
44:00 - AIPAC AND CHRISTIAN ZIONISM
- AIPAC claims to be bipartisan but overwhelmingly supports Republicans
- Christian evangelical Zionists see Israeli state as necessary for End Times prophecy (Jesus returns, Jews convert or go to hell)
- Theological antisemitism disguised as support for Israel—they don’t actually like Jews
50:14 - PATH FORWARD: ONE STATE OR TWO?
- Originally supported two-state solution but Israeli settler-colonialism makes it “impossible to achieve”
- Now supports single democratic state from river to sea with equal rights for all
- Or if two states, must be genuinely equal (not current situation with Israel controlling everything)
56:21 - JEWISH DISSENT AND HOPE
- Increasing number of young Jews rejecting Zionism—polling shows generational shift
- Jewish Voice for Peace and other anti-Zionist Jewish organizations growing
- Hope lies in solidarity movements demanding equality and freedom for Palestinians
